Immigration and responses to immigration
There were a variety of perspectives on immigration.
Participants sometimes identified immigration itself as a social evil, but often focused more specifically on the competition for limited resources (such as jobs and housing) that it can create. Participants felt that local residents can lose out to immigrants for these things.
Why bring over more and more people when you can’t sort the problems you got?
In this way, the social evil was the systems in place for those in need, rather than immigrants themselves.
Other people highlighted the economic and social advantages that immigration has brought to Britain and were critical of intolerant and negative attitudes towards immigrants and other people thought of as ‘outsiders’. There was a feeling that society should be more inclusive and supportive of these groups and that people should have “a more rounded view of immigration, based on facts, and could see it as being part of the UK’s rich tapestry”.
Participants also focused on the lack of compassion shown to asylum seekers and refugees entering the UK.
Some comments from the consultation
“Whilst most caring people feel sorry for immigrants fleeing from persecution in their own countries, we are a small island with limited resources and can’t be held responsible for saving the world.”
“I wish people had a more rounded view of immigration, based on facts, and could see it as being part of the UK’s rich tapestry rather than focusing on the scaremongering coverage of a minority’s bad behaviour.”
“I think safe communities can only exist when everyone believes that other people are not so different from themselves.”
on April 20th, 2008 at 8:33 am
I am an immigrant myself, not important form where ,what ethnical or religious group , and since the mid 70’s have seen how the country & its “composite” community speed towards a more clear and definite road block and en route for an even more senseless & responsible-less society. Almost as if falling at “terminal velocity “!
It’s not only our hunt of happiness (whatever is the definition), materialism, consumer goods (etc etc), or just our need for MERE survival that has led to where this society is standing, or the “divorce” of the various sub-societies (societies within) from the so called British.
There is more to it than many “dare” to name incase they can be labeled socially & ethnically incorrect names.
By “Societies Within”, I refer to the entire migrant AND none migrant members of this country, regardless of ethnic & religious background. Let me make that clear.
GB, as any other country with imperial power history, conquered, used, abused etc its “loyal” subjects, which in turn created certain stereotypes of people.
With time many of the conquered, became part of the British culture, after the “demise” of the Imperial Powers, as we know it.
Now days , each of the “Societies Within” have one major & common shared item that to me is one of the main missing pillars of British society.
Whatever is the ethnical or religious background, be it British ( all included ) , African, Asian ,Far Eastern, Middle Eastern, South American etc etc etc we all share one common sin.:
>>The lack of adaptation in the most pure sense of the word. We all take, and add little.
I know I might raise quite a number of eye brows and may anger a few more, but part of the adaptation is the ability to understand let alone respect other views.
I asked myself many years ago, and still do:
What have I added and what have I taken from my host country, now MY COUNTRY?
I see many rules, written & unwritten, publicly declared and other only whispered , that cater for needs of one or other sector of our society , regardless of what is your mother tongue or your skin color. Why?
Why do we need rules to:
• Protect each other of each other?
• Create rules to force upon each other “cultural” adaptation? Going 2 way rules that is.
• Scream for equality regulations, when even those who do require them do not practice them when it comes to issues that they consider NO TRESPASSING territory?
Why do we forget:
• On many occasions, when social adaptation is requested by your host country some might consider it an “ethically & ethnically” incorrect stipulation?
• That some who consider themselves, righteous, do not respect the ones who are just the same: hard working, paying tax, slightly different color but also righteous citizens?
• That many do not realize (or willingly forget) that living in community is a give and take?
Here I go back to my main question: what have ((I )) taken and given from /to my country or new country?
( NEW is only used to make the reader understand that(( I )) was not born here but living in my new country for over 35 years does earn me the right to say MY COUNTRY )
The answer is only available (maybe!) after you can consider your self as part of the problem as much as of the solution.
We all have nick names, whitey, blacky, darky, pikey , paki, ( the list goes on to lengths I really do not care to record) .
We all are using the society to live, one way or another.
We all have prejudices (including the person who is writing these lines).
We all need each other to live and get to where we aim to go.
We are all part of a symbiotic relationship.
We all do not give enough back to our /new/host/ second / only country.
I equally find it an embarrassment that many immigrants do not speak the lingo of their host (now own country)after years of being here.
The word embarrassment is used with intention here, because many actually do not care or refuse to learn it. Albeit dare say anything that might threaten any of the newly acquired benefits and hell will break open.
Having said the latter, I also find it equally humiliating that after so many law-abiding, culturally adapting, tax paying, learning other 3 Latin based languages( other than English) years , that my neighbors consider me nice , with a big BUT …..And that my color & origin governs my passage in many airports or my name has caused me to lose my flight connections?
Above these feelings make me doubt of the exercise of feeling in “MY COUNTRY” as everyday I made to feel less of that.
I only ask to remember this of all of us who call home> OUR COUNTRY:
Adaptations are nothing but a need to acclimatize your self to your new environment, which include language, social, civil etc acquired skills. You are not being asked to SHED your skin and identity. But you are asked to live together and enrich your surrounding which will enrich you in return.
A society that is knit of many cultures is a quilt that is made of many pieces, of different colors, qualities & sizes. Only useful when all pieces are put together and sewn to make one piece that covers and offers warmth.
Migration is not a use and throwaway tool. When it was needed, it was welcome; now that some sectors of society feel threatened it is a menace…
We should aim toward reasonable IMMIGRATION policies, not because it a threat, but rather to avoid creating more bases for the senseless and racially charged environment where our society is heading to.
It must be said loud and clear:
It is NOT IMMIGRATION that has gotten us to where we are now days, but in reality it’s our market demand, our consumer needs… let’s call it MATERIALISM that has and is.
It is what we call free market, profit based society, which leaves no chance but to be bulldozed over and over again with no mercy.
So even if we CLOSE the gates, and fortify the isles ( the British ones ) , our well-being will still be in decline , as outsourcing is in “”Fashion”” now days , solely based on profit to the few rule.
So what next … we bomb what “we” call the 3rd world countries so we keep our jobs?
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on April 20th, 2008 at 9:36 am
i would say that the vast majority of people would like to see this country run on the same basis as a householder i.e.you would’nt leave your front door open for any “tom dick or harry”to walk in,one has only to listen to the news to hear regular accounts of criminal activity occurring in this country from foreign gangs.but the most commen gripe for most (british and white)people is the daily broadcasting (from the ruling bodies that run this country) that we must “intergrate and live peacefully” but they arn’t the ones who have to “mix” with and “live” with these people who have in a lot of cases a completely different outlook of “britishness” then of course theres the common feeling (probably true) that these people walk into our “land” and from the first moment and start “milking” it with claims for maintainence and housing without paying a penny (unlike the indigenous population) who have toiled for years (politically and physically)to reap such benefits.and then one only has to watch the news to see how some “britons” plan or have already carried out terror attacks on the community and without predjudice i can say they are not of “anglo saxon” descent.and finally i’m not a particulary religous man but (and i think most of the population would agree)i would rather see a church steeple on the horizon rather than the towers of a mosque looming over us!
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on April 20th, 2008 at 10:25 am
This is the hottest topic now in the21st century.and definitely the scariest.The Government have sat on this issue for far to long and we are now paying the penalty for being to lenient in this department.The threat of terrorism is now more prevalent than it ever was as the influx of immigrants keeps getting larger by the year.Something radicle has to happen to stem the flow or very soon we are going to be overrun with foreigners.A cap should be put on the amount of people that the British Government let into the British Isles and English should be the first language.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on April 20th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Over population is a major problem and as climate change takes hold there will be more people migrating. Apparently immigrants from Eastern Europe have a higher birthrate and the indigenous people of this island and this has put pressure on maternity units and schools. At some time or another we are going to have to have a policy on the number of children we can have just like China has had to do. How we go about it I really don’t know but for most of my life I have not been against immigration and now I feel it has to be controlled.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on April 20th, 2008 at 11:58 am
What’s scary is the ignorance and selective nature of the arguments put forward in the previous posts for this section. No mention at all of Britain’s colonial past that created poverty in other parts of the world whilst making Britian one of the richest countries in the world. No sense of responsibility for the hardships that Britian has created and is still creating for people elsewhere - asylum seekers and migrants often come from places where Britain’s foreign policy has played a major role in creating insecurity and destruction. Even worse no respect for the diverse beliefs that people already living within Britian hold, many of whom were born and brought up here and many of whom have “toiled for years” contributing to the economy in jobs that no-one else wanted to do. Obviously there are still some dinosaurs around who think they have to become Christians to be accepted and preferably have a skin transplant to make them look “anglo-saxon”.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.Before people start linking immigration with terrorism they need to remember that the July 7 bombers were not immigrants. They stated it was Britian’s foreign policy that motivated them to do what they did. Until the mismatch between what British people want for themselves and what they accept for others is addressed the threat of terrorism will not go away.
The idea that Britain doesn’t need a high birthrate shows more ignorance of the facts - Britian has an ageing population and there will be no-one to pay the pensions of older people unless the birthrate stays high.
Solutions to the social tensions around need people who are informed by facts not divisive opinions based on hot air.
on April 20th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
I know a woman who came from Spain and got council housing in a few days.
How is that fair when there is not housing for English people ?
@Jean Meyer
“Before people start linking immigration with terrorism they need to remember that the July 7 bombers were not immigrants”
Actually one was born in the West Indies - the others certainly did not think of theirselves as English. Their parents were immigrants and if they had not been allowed to come here 52 people would be alive today.
That is a fact.
“The idea that Britain doesn’t need a high birthrate shows more ignorance of the facts - Britian has an ageing population and there will be no-one to pay the pensions of older people unless the birthrate stays high.”
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.That is not true. 2.7 million people live on invalidity benefit alone in the UK, if there was .5 million we would have the money for 2.2 million more pensioners. We need less benefit claimants for immigrants ones the solution is simple - deport them “
on April 20th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I think there is a problem with racism heightening among British People and it is worrying me. The reason cited is perceived high levels of immigration.
Sadly these opinions are almost always based on misconception, rather than fact. I would like to see the media play a part in tackling this problem with fact based reporting, speaking the truth and explaining immigration to its readers, most particularly the difference between asylum seekers (Applicants do not receive benefits and social housing. Applicant levels are low), economic migrants (eastern europeans are legally entitled to work here. They receive nothing but emergency health care. They are require to fund themselves completely while here) and illegal immigration (a serious human rights abuse issue. Again, they have no access to benefits and social housing)
The reality is that the immigration groups that people cite have no access to state benefits, routine health care and social housing. Economic migrants cannot even access NHS maternity services. They have to go private. Successful asylum seekers do get help, but their numbers are far lower than imagined and are at the same level as they were in 1995.
Another point missed by the media is that legal migrant workers are filling essential shortfalls in our own workforce, especially in areas of health care and dentistry.
If the truth could be expressed by the media, both tabloids and broadsheets, it would help immensely in reducing tension and racist attitudes.
By the way, saying,
“I’m not racist, but ********* ” means nothing.
I’ve heard people say this a lot lately and sadly what they say is often very racist indeed, regardless of how they open their comment. To raise concerns about high levels of immigration is not racist, but to target particular ethnic groups for slander, blame, suspicion, reduced worth or hatred is. To not want someone to be near you, live on your street, work in your workplace, practice their religion, attend your child’s school, receive care at your GP, because they are ethnically different is also racist. Many of our ethnic minorities are British Citizens and are entitled to all of the above without harassment or blame.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on April 20th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
This is a difficult issue, worsened by people’s desire to defend their rights to an affluent life. This is understandable, since we are inherently a defensive race, “wired’ to survive at all costs. However if we can get our heads around the fact that in having running water, electricity, free education and healthcare we amongst the most privileged tiny percentage that have ever stepped on this earth, then perhaps we can view the world through a different lense. My view-and the view of many people i know, is that we are so, so lucky to have what we have-and one of the things that makes me proudest about being British is knowing that people from overseas feel they might just get treated fairly and have a chance at a better life here. Even if it means my standard of living goes down as a result. (And this is questionable since immigration contributes more to our economy than it takes….) As Ghandi said, “the world has enough for every mans need, not every mans greed.” B********cks to the economic principles of growth. We have enough-far too much, and its about time we are less selfish and more equitable. If these values informed our Home and Foreign policy I just sense there would be a few less attacks on Western targets. Shalom.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on April 20th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
No thanks to any “-isms”. Alan Dodson seems to have a short memory about the more recent “terrorism” in the UK, fuelled in part by inequality and a very old christian religious difference between catholic and protestant. I dont want a church or mosque beaming down at me - thanks.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.Conflict of interest: I am second generation foreigner (irish quaker), but my family got to Dublin via religious persecution in Europe in 16th century.
I pass as white british but am not.
The UK should be proud of its history of democracy & tolerance and cautious about labelling immigration as either cause or solution of social evil. As a young person I too was ‘radical’ about britains oldest colony and had difficulty getting in and out of the UK at customs as I had an Irish passport - I couldnt imagine in my wildest dreams that Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams would sit down together and that N Ireland would envy the material lives of those in S Ireland.
Peace is attainable.
on April 20th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
we should close our boarders forthwith and not allow anymore immigrants in the country.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.We should repatriate any former immigrants that wish to return to their country of origin. Any people that have been given the right to stay should be removed if they break the laws of this country.
We should put more of an emphasis on teaching British history in schools and promote more national pride like St George day that would give every body in the British isles more cohesive values weather they were recently naturalized or not.
on April 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I find it depressing that so many people take a Daily Mail view of immigration and immigrants. (Perhaps it is not surprising on the anniversary of Enoch Powell’s appalling ‘rivers of blood’ speech.)
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.There are several things we need to remember; many immigrants come here to do jobs which people already here are unwilling to do; some come because they are persecuted in their own countries, and if we believe in our ‘values’ we should welcome them; many ‘immigrants’ are not immigrants at all, but were born here, and objections to them are quite simply racist. One other point to remember is that many Brits now emigrate (notably to Australia and Spain, some of them in Spain not seeing any need to learn the language). Logically, those who oppose immigration should be scandalised by emigration as well, but of course that would be equally nonsensical and abhorrent.
on April 22nd, 2008 at 8:54 am
We have always had people arriving in and departing from our country. I grew up in Deal, on the Kent coast and Julias Ceasar id reputed to have landed there a couple of thiousand years agio. That probably means that I have Roman blood. Given our lengthy history, I’ve probably got Angle and Saxon blood too.We are all part of humanity, but with different backgrounds. Of course, there need to be regulations which govern relations between nations, but it is the responsibility on parents, family, schools, colleges and others to teach respect and the value of every person’s life. Perhaps children should be taught more about their industrial and agricultural history and less about kings and queens. Perhaps then they will understand that most us were poor and struggled to get a better life in the past - some in this country and some elsewhere.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on April 25th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Do the people who promote multiculterism ever read history? as soon as dictatorship relaxes it’s grip warfare is the result. The former Yugoslavia and U S S R come to mind. Enoch Powell is ridiculed and villified it wasn’t water running down the London Underground on July 7. Our lords and masters tell us that we should respect other cultures I would like to see a bit of respect for the culture that made Britain the place it is. There was never a lack people to do the so called menial jobs only a lack of takers for the poor wages offered as already stated the British fought for a long time for what rights they have now this island is already overcrowded have those now flooding here considered staying at home and improving there own countries.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 6th, 2008 at 10:45 am
JOSEPH ROWNTREE – ERIC BERNE
Joseph Rowntree called upon us all to seek out the fundamental causes of weakness and evil in society.
Eric Berne gave us a succinct view of self-and-others; the tool required to achieve the above aim.
I would assert that (whether evil comes from social incompetence or – if such is your view - from letting the Devil in) its root cause IS weakness; the weakness of the individual.
In Berne’s terms, weakness amounts to an under-developed Adult ego state* in the psyche; a condition I see as pertaining all over the planet. The two terrible truths of society, are: (1) individual weakness is increasing, and (2) the overcompensating-weak, rise to positions of power. Consequently, any corrective effort must reach out directly to the very young as the Powers That Be are, instinctively, fearful of general empowerment.
I have synthesised an approach. It can be found www.barriesingleton.co.uk as outlined in 1995 to Rowntree. Click on “Visionary Stuff”.
Only wisdom empowers; cleverness is inclined to enslave. Development of a strong Adult ego state engenders wisdom and is vital to individual, family, group, state and world stability. Adult strength is the ultimate answer to every weakness and evil.
* Transactional Analysis http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/ta.htm
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 6th, 2008 at 10:51 am
@Bill Kirkman
“There are several things we need to remember; many immigrants come here to do jobs which people already here are unwilling to do;”
True but there are also many who come here for free or cheap housing. I know some are related to me by marriage (my wife is an immigrant). There are also others eg Abu Hamza who want to destroy our democracy.
We must also remember no immigration = no Muslim terrorism as the bombs in Poland (what bombs ??? show).
@Bill Kirkman
“Logically, those who oppose immigration should be scandalised by emigration as well,”
I do not oppose immigration. I just oppose giving them money or letting criminals or people who want Sharia in. If a foreign country wanted to let British criminals in then they can do so. I would of course that they are as stupid as we are in letting so many foreign criminals that now 20% of convicted murderers are foreigners !!
The government’s immigration policy seems to have 2 aims 1) let undesirables and often keep desirables out 2) help the BNP.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 6th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Mr Kirkman Before Blair’s mass immigration programme British people did most of the jobs immigrants do now. Whats changed? Labour has allowed its supporters to claim benefits for life, many of whom subsidise their benefits with other work - fact. I endorse David Easton’s comments, we don’t need immigrants to make our land a better place. From what I have seen immigrants are here to improve the lot of bosses and some immigrant employers.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 9th, 2008 at 6:13 am
God criated this world for people live free and travel free any where they liked.Immigration laws made obstacle to people travel free.We must immediatly withdraw all immigration laws in this world for people travel free any where they need.Then no evil in this world.That is the perfect.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 13th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
I do not think that immigration is a social evil. But I work with a group of people who are still fighting to have their needs recognised and met by the UK and Scottish Governments. The problem they have is one of communication - they cannot shout and be heard. I work in support of Deaf, Deafblind and Deafened people in Scotland. Deaf people are a community in their own right with their own language (BSL) and culture that is not recognised. There is no legislation that protects them. The authorities treat them as disabled in legislation, not as a linguistic minority, therefore only the DDA can be used to try and influence change. Whereas immigrants are seen to be in a linguistic minority and can “shout” about their lack of services etc, the deaf community cannot. When they “complain” that Eastern European migrants have more rights to services and information than they do, it is seen as racism. When the UK and Scottish Governemtns accept that sign language users are a linguistic minority and not disabled then things may change - but it may take a sledgehammer to break a nut - in the fact that Deaf sign language users are now in the process of attempting to change insitutional perspectives through the legislative route.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.Immigration is not a bad thing. But PLEASE extend the same rights to information, education, and services to the deaf communiy before spending more money and resources on the immigrant population.
on May 20th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
This can all be simplified to a moralistic view. If you were to remove the boundrys that you learnt from geography then you will realise that people are people no matter where they’re from, and all deserve an equal chance in and at life. If you were to ignore the complaints from certain newspapers about immigrants “smothering our way of life” and “stealing our jobs” then you will see immigration as a morraly viable way of promoting global equality. Who are you to say what is yours?
Another interesting point about jobs is that if you were to think about it you realise that people who work harder for less money than you do deserve the jobs more than you do. It’s simply survival of the fittest.
And about somthering “OUR” way of life? We’ve had immigration for centuries. And a comparitive trickle to many other countries at that. Why is it such a major proble all of a sudden?
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 23rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
it is wrong to categorised ‘immigration’ and ‘responses to immigration together. they are polar opposites, and for the former read ‘racism’.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 23rd, 2008 at 12:30 pm
it is wrong to categorise ‘immigration’ and ‘responses to immigration’ together - they are polar opposites. for the former read racism
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 23rd, 2008 at 12:37 pm
i didn’t mean ‘immigration’=racism i meant those who see it as a problem are guilty of racism, and factually incorrect. i have read the above debate - and i am appalled at libellous myth about immigrants being prtrayed as ‘fact’ and terrorism being blamed on immigration/immigrants (many terrorists ar british) etc. can’t read anymore - shocked to see this on a jrf research website.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on May 24th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Today’s immigrants are tomorrows patriotic Brits - look back into history and see how much for example the Huguenots and more recently German immigrants fleeing from Hitler have contributed to our society. Look at how the vast influx of immigrants into the USA in the early 1900’s worked in America’s favour 2 and 3 generations later. They add energy, spice, new economic growth, diversity and a refreshing awareness of the enormous range of cultures, creeds and outlooks existing on this planet, a planet on which we must together find solutions to the rape of its resources and the effects of human ignorance and arrogance.
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.Solutions? Not Education, Education and Education but Learning, Learning and Learning. Not faith schools in which every faith is segregated from every other (see N Ireland) but community schools where children can learn and understand from each other in a curriculum that emphasises skills, civic responsibility and active citizenship. At the city level modern technology makes it possible for all parts of society to interact with others in other cities and regions of the world. Why not ‘cityrings’ in which say 6 cities from different continents in the developed world develop links between children, 3rd agers, workers etc and include one or two cities from the developing world, including places like Iraq, Afghanistan and China. Effective dialogue can break down many barriers especially when it is directed towards the solving of problems. It would need a couple of people in each city to drive it but the benefits could be cataclysmic. Of course there will still be the dinosaurs who can’t cope with diversity - but this is a process that will only happen over a couple of generations. Meanwhile the Daily Mail and others will still sell papers by fostering outrage and resentment.
on June 15th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Immigration per se is not a problem but the way the Government has responded to it is. I’d like to think that we could welcome anyone who wishes to make Britain their home, provided they come here legally and are prepared to abide by the laws of the land. However, in an apparent attempt to avoid alienating or offending immigrants, many facets of the British way of life are being eroded. People tend to blame the immigrants themselves for this when really it is the Government that is responsible. In addition, they have made it too easy for immigrants to refuse to integrate by not learning the language, etc. (Incidentally I think this is equally reprehensible amonst British people who move abroad - e.g. to Spain or France in retirement.)
Abusive? Inappropriate? Report this comment.on August 7th, 2008 at 10:05 am
i have lived in my home town all my life.in the last 5 years i have seen a dramitic change in the way people relate to one another. there is a perticular area where i live that has been completely taken over by immigrants. not only have they totally claimed the area as their own but they have made it a no go area for the white population. i was walking in this area recently and walked past several groups of immigrant. both groups looked at me with disgust one group even refered to me as white trash even though all i was doing was walking past them. i feel that this is the reality of the present immigration system and the politically correc bregade. if i had responded to their comment of white trash with an equally racist remark i believe that i would have been put before the courts. i wonder how the present government would feel if they were faced with the same comments as they went about their daily lives
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